Efreeze bugged?
Section:
EFREEZE Mod |
Started by: pSylle |
Date: 08/02/2009 03:16
Ok, i played quake 3 since 9 years now, and i never had those shooting through problems, even in quake live i dont, lag is lag, with 100 ping i know my lag and i shoot with it but....now i play 30 ping and always shoot through. Final word is if the gameplay doesnt change i just leave the mod, 9 years of quake never seen that!
Must update the mod, to be quakelike, back to the basic. Force maxpacket rate snaps etc well i dont know the problem, Atrey already told about a shooting change--->delete that now.
Can someone explain me why i dont hit players with 30 ping?
If not: ciao in another mod, kthx.
just make it freezedt like and add in all other stuff like scoreboard and enemycolors etc
but could it be that the shoot through feature is caused by the forced models and forced enemycolors??? because if someone is say bones and you have them are tankjr.... wont the server think he is bones and so if you shoot tankjr towards the side it will miss???
yeeeee, this lag is very bad :< well david try to use 125 maxpackets, i was doing it and i had "normal shoots", btw my net sucks and it depends for me, dunno for u =)))
(i know that u always have white ping but remember q3 board lies)
i had lags the other day too, not stable 64 but always little ups/downs around that - and shooting through happens yeah, but then sometimes i hit where i never thought i would, going back to basic is always an option, since the new mod doesnt seem to be coming
You have my support pSylle ... 30 ping is unhittable for me as well.
We need to do something about it atrey, as this gets too annoying ... Maybe a client variable which would be able to set this thing server side for an individual or that it turns on automatically for those with 40+ ping or something ... I really prefer playing on 42-58 ping or more ... I hit more on bedzie with 64-70 ping than on dft with 31, it is just not working as it should for my ping ... So server admins, please let me set snaps on 20, so I can play on higher ping, for real.
Also atrey when I'll have a bit more time I'll make a video so you'll see what's going on on my 30 ping. I notice that this is happening only while I'm moving ... What usually happens is when I hit a player right into his solar plexus (in the center) he just won't die, but when I miss or hit the edges of him, he'll get frozen ... Totally sux ... Also I'll show you a funny thing in dm5 (or any other map) when a player is right behind the corner and you see just a little bit of him (having tankjr as enemy models) he'll be unhittable if I'm not moving (as edges are not hittable on tankjr as it's a bigger skin than the so called 'player hitbox'), but if I just move a bit and shoot at him, he'll insta die, although he's on the same spot and is impossible to kill him and I could even see less of him, funny ...
Of course all my settings are good, no timenudge, snaps 40, rate 25k, maxpackets on 100 (125 on .32) and fps's being set on the same value as maxpackets ... And yes I didn't have this probs in past, as my ping was far from being below 40 ...
I downloaded 3 weird files yesterday from Nep server:
q3sound4d.pk3
xtdm1.ba6b9eaa.pk3
xtdm1.pk3
I noticed one of the files made thaws look different, but what are the other 2?
I also noticed it lagged more than usual, cause was either the server or the files.....Medic NoNE!
We shouldn't use q3sound4d.pk3 anymore. This pack includes a custom ice cube around frozen buddies (we needed a lot of time to find where did it come from). With it, you won't see ice cubes like in normal mod, every ice cube will be WHITE. And if it's just to have more annoying sounds, it's not a good idea to keep it. I wish every server owner will remove it.
when i play with some 30ish ping it seems i hit way faster than with 45, yet 45 makes it a lil more accurate somehow tho. bad thing is that my ping can be 50 one day and 35 the next on that fn server (havent noticed that on any other 1). anyway the bones / tankjr comparison is crap as can be taken from nones post. had some nice page on what players hitboxes look like in q3 in the various situations which i dont remember sadly but just keep in mind that all players have the same.
ps: can it be that also enemypings have some effect on that "new" style shooting? just felt like hitting 30 pingers i have to aim behind them, 150 pingers in front and those between are best targets. if its impossible thats just personal imagination playing with me but has any1 else experienced something like that ? :o
none Told :
You have my support pSylle ... 30 ping is unhittable for me as well.
We need to do something about it atrey, as this gets too annoying ... Maybe a client variable which would be able to set this thing server side for an individual or that it turns on automatically for those with 40+ ping or something ... I really prefer playing on 42-58 ping or more ... I hit more on bedzie with 64-70 ping than on dft with 31, it is just not working as it should for my ping ... So server admins, please let me set snaps on 20, so I can play on higher ping, for real.
Also atrey when I'll have a bit more time I'll make a video so you'll see what's going on on my 30 ping. I notice that this is happening only while I'm moving ... What usually happens is when I hit a player right into his solar plexus (in the center) he just won't die, but when I miss or hit the edges of him, he'll get frozen ... Totally sux ... Also I'll show you a funny thing in dm5 (or any other map) when a player is right behind the corner and you see just a little bit of him (having tankjr as enemy models) he'll be unhittable if I'm not moving (as edges are not hittable on tankjr as it's a bigger skin than the so called 'player hitbox'), but if I just move a bit and shoot at him, he'll insta die, although he's on the same spot and is impossible to kill him and I could even see less of him, funny ...
Of course all my settings are good, no timenudge, snaps 40, rate 25k, maxpackets on 100 (125 on .32) and fps's being set on the same value as maxpackets ... And yes I didn't have this probs in past, as my ping was far from being below 40 ...
Posted on 08 February 2009 at 11:34:12
oh! So that means, me and Insa have friends with our statements:
mine: Shooting is different than efreeze 1.02!
insa: cl_timenudge doesnt work as before!
Cool, remember about both 
NoNE said:
I hit a player right into his solar plexus (in the center) he just won't die, but when I miss or hit the edges of him, he'll get frozen ...
I understand why i'm good for moment 
@monkey: Xtdm1.blabla is the temporary file from q3 and xtdm1.pk3 the final map you had downloaded, no action on your game.
Thx <=D
At Abz and other music negros who knows all music stuff, what is this song called:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH5HruSGEWk&feature=rec-HM-rn
this is: Paint It Black by The Rolling Stones:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DP2VyquMAaM (live)
p.s. took me 3 secs to figure
p.p.s. good thoughts on the mod guys, maybe start from the basic freezedt again or try other mod? or is this too much work?
The delta thing i told about regards the weapon reload time, not shooting. So, this shooting problem has a weird nature. I can remove the delta. But the question is - will it help or not? Anyway, guys, maybe you just can't aim?
That's probably the best deduction you can do, Dmitry
I think shootin through is an problem but it can't be basically fixed on servers where many ppl still use difrent paks.. tho net settings mess up hitting too. +fpsloss +packetloss +damaged packets +timenudge and couple of more things like maxpackets/snaps/rate etc ;p this isnt helpfull at all lol ;p. and ye phantomhook ;p. hmh try to play with positive timenudge :P.
I have read the other thread where you were talking about "the delta" and other changes, so few things I want to clarify:
You said in the other thread that this thing has such an impact on aiming/shooting for Russian players that they will quit competing with EU players, now you're telling us here like it does nothing?
Also how is reload time not affecting shooting? You probably meant that it doesn't do anything with the trail mechanics as reload has huge effect on shooting?! The way you described "delta" I'm confident that this could be settable as a client variable.
Next thing you said that you've built new eFreeze from FreezeDT sources? I'm confused here a bit, you probably meant the original Freeze Tag? FreezeDT was made by DayenTech and its name stands for Freeze DayenTech and it was specially designed for 1.32 U.S. freeze community. As far as I know DT never released the source of their mod.
Next, we tried having FreezeDT in past (end of 2004) and as the mod was built on the 1.32 sources it had major conflicts on the 1.31 version of Quake 3. I'm sure here are still some old school people who can easily confirm that. The mod went off the servers in a week, as it just wasn't compatible and that was one of several reasons eFreeze was created and that I built it on the 1.31 sources and not 1.32 ones. We needed a modified freeze for 1.31 servers not 1.32! Don't forget so-called "net" settings are modified for 1.32 and are not well compatible on 1.31 version. I was not aware you have rebuilt it on 1.32, that was the main problem with FreezeDT and why European community never adopted it!
To quote you from other thread:
atrey Told :
during the time i was working on ef-1.2 i found that mod built from the sources differs in shooting
That's what I'm talking about above ... 1.32 has different mechanics and things were coded differently because the new 1.32 point release brought new things with it. Running 1.32 code on 1.31 brings conflicts ... As 1.31 code is not compatible with 1.16 ... To summarize, 1.32 sources are built for new things which 1.32 patch brought, but those changes aren't in 1.31, yet mod is now built for them.
atrey Told :
during the time i was working on ef-1.2 i found that mod built from the sources differs in shooting
That's what I'm talking about above ... 1.32 has different mechanics and things were coded differently because the new 1.32 point release brought new things with it. Running 1.32 code on 1.31 brings conflicts ... As 1.31 code is not compatible with 1.16 ... To summarize, 1.32 sources are built for new things which 1.32 patch brought, but those changes aren't in 1.31, yet mod is now built for them.[/cit]
Posted on 08 February 2009 at 22:47:00
I feel it while youre coding it.
Marko, you can just make diffs between FreezeDT and the original ef-1.02 and you'll see that IT IS the FreezeDT 1.51, but with your code insertions. As of my coding, I just brought forced models and skins and other unimportant stuff. Except the delta, nothing else could affect shooting. We can just remove it and see if it helps. But, as I said, it will bring us back to the situation when low pingers would have a huge advantage over laggers.
there's no huge advantage for real.
I'm used to ping 90 - i own 30 pingers. I'm used to ping 30, but shooting is like 60 ms - everybody owns me. Even on unlagged mods, lowpingers has easier job, but on non-unlagged mods, it's all about beeing used to ping.
all i know .. 130 ping in freezeDT is fine to play, in efreeze its (at least for me) a lot harder. also when i played some 1on1s with code & beast on various servers what i felt was that ping matter more than in any other mod. while 60 vs 60 were mostly close games i had a much easier time with 45 vs 60 and whne i then had 33 on a southern german server while they had 60-65 again they said they couldnt even see me around corners and were dead already.
ping fuqin matters more than ever these days ! :P
You certainly didn't read my whole post did you?
The problem atrey isn't the delta thing, BUT THAT YOU'VE REBUILT THE MOD ON 1.32 SOURCES.
AGAIN, 1.32 brought a lot of changes with it's new patch and that's why for versions 1.27 to 1.31 there is v1.27 source for building mods and for 1.32 new source was released. ONE of 1.32 changes are in NETWORK MECHANICS, which are causing conflicts in 1.31 and it's not the only thing that does. Mod is NOW build for the DIFFERENCES which 1.32 POINT RELEASE BROUGHT, yet on 1.31 THOSE CHANGES AREN'T PRESENT and MOD IS NOW BUILT FOR THEM, is that so hard to understand? It's like opening Office 2007 documents in Office 2003, it's not gonna open them properly, yet Office 2003 documents are easily gonna be open in Office 2007.
Also I see you're mixing FreezeDT and Freeze Tag atrey. Stop that please. FreezeDT is modification of Freeze Tag as eFreeze is modification of Freeze Tag, NOT FreezeDT. It's like saying FreezeDT is built on eFreeze, it's not. FreezeDT was the first freeze mod to use the cheat protection in it, so that's why we wanted it in our community back in 2004, BUT IT DIDN'T WORK WELL CAUSE IT'S BUILD ON 1.32 MOD SOURCES and THAT'S WHY EFREEZE MUST HAVE USED 1.27 MOD SOURCES TO WORK ON 1.31 WITHOUT PROBLEMS!
Also the CAPS are there only to pinpoint what's important, no emotions or anything else involved
I remember when I built the mod for the first time from the 1.02 sources, the shooting was already different. Adam can confirm that the shooting was different. So, the new delta thing was to remove such difference. Finally, we came to a situation when shooting seemed to be normal. But, seems like it is still not the same.
I've marked my changes in the code by "//efreeze-1.1" comments. So, what we can do now is to extract my changes from the 1.2 code-base and merge with the 1.02 source code and get what all want.
And meanwhile I stay at position that 1.32 code base could not affect the shooting.
Well how it couldn't effect it, if maxpackets can be set bigger, timenudge is behaving differently, etc ... If you set any of net settings it has major impact on shooting as we're playing with railgun which is very ping oriented.
I will compile fresh Freeze Tag without any modifications and would like to test it on a server. We'll start adding modifications step by step in server side code and test it until the cause is found. This could be done in few days if we have some people to join the private server and test the shooting. Also, if it's possible I would request a German server with shell access and that killing/starting the quake process is possible. That way new things can be added, compiled and tested instantly. Server is needed in remote location as testing wouldn't be effective otherwise. After that, most of the newly requested server-side things can be added and when everything works well, focus can go on client side.
cl_timeNudge, cl_maxPackets, snaps and etc are not the mod's vars, but are the client's ones (q3.exe). Their behaviour is determined by the executable, not the mod (whatever code-base the mod has). In the mod we just control which values these vars can have.
Of course they're not, but you're forgetting that mod also calls functions which are in .exe file and structure of those calling functions and parameters (can) differ in different versions and mod source is modified for them. Same goes when .exe file is handling a mod. Have you ever seen a 1.31 mod working on 1.16? I guess so.
so who can supply the server for testing?
already done
cheers
atrey Told :
the rail miss thing has a strange nature. during the time i was working on ef-1.2 i found that mod built from the sources differs in shooting from the already compiled 1.02 mod. and this was even without any code changes from me!!! so i untroduced the delta mechanism which in my opinion smoothed that difference. it could be easily removed. but!!!! it definetely will make shooting on high pings harder.
we (miss, other rus clans) now playing with pings 60-100. it is already a disadvantage for us to play with such ping. with the delta removed, it would be an even bigger disadvantage.
i don't know if some1 cares about it, but we most probably either will not play any more, or will challenge others on our moscow or saint-petersburg servers, where others will have 120 ping. then tell us it will be unfair.
i vote for the shooting to stay as it is. it is not for players with ping 10-30 to complain about it. ask burzyk and tokz how do they shoot normally. or try to change the cl_timenudge variable.
Posted on 29 December 2008 at 10:06:20
In this other topic: ../forum.html
Sorry, i feel too much differences: fast moving shots hit, i hit sometimes when the enemy isnt even in my sight (gone behind a corner), but i still shoot through players even when sometimes he isnt moving, no more "air shots" i so much like, etc....
I am for the mod to go back to normal q3 shooting and lag, i even accept to play matches with 100 ping (like home-visitors).
Going to test other mods, to confirm what im saying.
