Read and sign this petition .. more we are the better:
http://www.stopdataretention.com/index.php?lang=eng
30/08/2005 07:25
Stop Data Retention !
Section: Free Chat Zone |
Started by: Spc |
Date: 30/08/2005 07:25
30/08/2005 09:55
i wondered when someone was comming with this page, in the netherlands we got some tv programs about how bad it is.
also is nice to know that its the ministers who are pushing this absert plan true wile the the parlement is against it. this is possible cos of a absurt law that makes it possible for ministers to bypass the parlement if its in interst of common safety (terrorism)
also nice to know is that ISP's will get enormes cost storing this data. and that means higher bills for us.
also nice to know is that this data is for the mayor part useless cos its almost impossible to indexate and combine this data to somthing usefull. for example 4 years of data like this would take 1 month to search true if you use one of the fasted supercomputer in the world.
nice to know is that america has quit this idea cos of the technical difficulty's and enormus cost and low usage persentage. (you know who talked to who but dont know what they said).
nice to know is that the european goverment cares so well for our freedom that they do everything to contain it.
nice to know is that this kind of idea's are cos of terrorism wich started for europe and the usa at 9\11 and that 9\11 has some serious questions regarding if it was realy terror. (look at http://streaming.reopen911.org/video/PainfulDeceptions_dutch.html to see what i mean watch your buffer cos its a 185 mb streaming movie witch stops sometimes halfway cos buffer runs out.)
also is nice to know that its the ministers who are pushing this absert plan true wile the the parlement is against it. this is possible cos of a absurt law that makes it possible for ministers to bypass the parlement if its in interst of common safety (terrorism)
also nice to know is that ISP's will get enormes cost storing this data. and that means higher bills for us.
also nice to know is that this data is for the mayor part useless cos its almost impossible to indexate and combine this data to somthing usefull. for example 4 years of data like this would take 1 month to search true if you use one of the fasted supercomputer in the world.
nice to know is that america has quit this idea cos of the technical difficulty's and enormus cost and low usage persentage. (you know who talked to who but dont know what they said).
nice to know is that the european goverment cares so well for our freedom that they do everything to contain it.
nice to know is that this kind of idea's are cos of terrorism wich started for europe and the usa at 9\11 and that 9\11 has some serious questions regarding if it was realy terror. (look at http://streaming.reopen911.org/video/PainfulDeceptions_dutch.html to see what i mean watch your buffer cos its a 185 mb streaming movie witch stops sometimes halfway cos buffer runs out.)
30/08/2005 10:28
nicely said reb, i already signed it
good job spc
good job spc
30/08/2005 11:59
heya
before i say what i think i like to say that i nether agree or disseragee with it, i am just stating what i think after reading the page.
here is my two cents,
well i think this is a bad thing as data conserning people privet use of the internet is there own, but there are possibly some advartanges to it,
first thing that i can think of is that people that see kiddy porn we all hate it and think that it is wrong, this would allow for better protection agents that and also lead to the capture of the people that are:
1: putting it on the web sites
2: the people that are downloading it.
the thing is that your ISP for the most part already keeps a record of all the internet site that u vist for at least 6 month and it is up to the ISP to delete it if they want. the only thing atm the stops them giving your data out are the data protection laws and human right laws. but here in the UK we have similuer laws to the EU but in both parts polices can overwright the laws and take that data with a worrant and can keep it for a certain time period. this is in the data protection act and the human rights act.
here is a quote from the human rights act of 1998
sorce: http://www.dca.gov.uk/ccpd/dpsubleg.htm
Organisations processing personal data ("controllers") must comply with the data protection principles. These require data to be:
* fairly and lawfully processed;
* processed for limited purposes;
* adequate, relevant and not excessive;
* accurate;
* not kept longer than necessary;
* processed in accordance with individuals' rights;
* kept secure;
* not transferred to non-EEA (European Economic Area) countries without adequate protection.
As part of complying with the principles, controllers must:
* meet one of six conditions in order to process personal data;
* meet one of a number of further conditions in order to process sensitive data*;
* inform individuals when their data are collected.
so as u can see your data on where u go on the internet is already beging kept for what ever time your ISP wants, and police can view it as long as the for fill one of the 6 requirments that are above.
if u are doing nothing wrong on the internet then u have nothing to worry about if they keep your data or not as they will never use it agents u.
what i think they are trying to do it a scare tatic that wil inessance help provent terriosum around the world.
like i said at the start of this i nither agree or disseragree with it
Soady
before i say what i think i like to say that i nether agree or disseragee with it, i am just stating what i think after reading the page.
here is my two cents,
well i think this is a bad thing as data conserning people privet use of the internet is there own, but there are possibly some advartanges to it,
first thing that i can think of is that people that see kiddy porn we all hate it and think that it is wrong, this would allow for better protection agents that and also lead to the capture of the people that are:
1: putting it on the web sites
2: the people that are downloading it.
the thing is that your ISP for the most part already keeps a record of all the internet site that u vist for at least 6 month and it is up to the ISP to delete it if they want. the only thing atm the stops them giving your data out are the data protection laws and human right laws. but here in the UK we have similuer laws to the EU but in both parts polices can overwright the laws and take that data with a worrant and can keep it for a certain time period. this is in the data protection act and the human rights act.
here is a quote from the human rights act of 1998
sorce: http://www.dca.gov.uk/ccpd/dpsubleg.htm
Organisations processing personal data ("controllers") must comply with the data protection principles. These require data to be:
* fairly and lawfully processed;
* processed for limited purposes;
* adequate, relevant and not excessive;
* accurate;
* not kept longer than necessary;
* processed in accordance with individuals' rights;
* kept secure;
* not transferred to non-EEA (European Economic Area) countries without adequate protection.
As part of complying with the principles, controllers must:
* meet one of six conditions in order to process personal data;
* meet one of a number of further conditions in order to process sensitive data*;
* inform individuals when their data are collected.
so as u can see your data on where u go on the internet is already beging kept for what ever time your ISP wants, and police can view it as long as the for fill one of the 6 requirments that are above.
if u are doing nothing wrong on the internet then u have nothing to worry about if they keep your data or not as they will never use it agents u.
what i think they are trying to do it a scare tatic that wil inessance help provent terriosum around the world.
like i said at the start of this i nither agree or disseragree with it
Soady
30/08/2005 12:47
first point about the kiddie porn, this law is useless for that cos they can onley see that you have visited that site not what you have done there just client x connects to server x not more. so you can onley prove that he visited it but not what he put on or took off that site.
about isp's logging those files that is 100% untrue we are not speaking about logfiles of some GB but thousents of PB witch are need to be indexated to be of use for isp's there is no ISP in the world that can pay a mainframe that can do that and if they could pay that wouln't pay it cos its not interesting for them. in the netherlands the isp's are the one's who brought this to the public just because they could not pay the nessesairy instalations. and are afraid that they have to pay themselfs so internet get more expensive.(look at that site its hosted and sponserd by XS4all they were the ones that lanched here a offensive against this law.
What they already do is logging information of individuals, for example if the police suspects someone they are allowed to log that persons internet activity, but that is the same as phone tapping or placing spy devices in houses it can onley be done if someone is already suspected of something the new law logs everyone.
that law you pulled is the normal law for storage of personal data for example if you have a shop and you have the adresses names and banknumbers SOFInumbers ect stored you will have to meate those condisions of security to prevent it to fall in wrong hands.
btw soady i know you crazy englisch people dont accept it yet but the UK is member of the EU and like in every EU country 80 % of your laws are made in brussel
so the UK laws are not like the EU laws the EU laws ARE your laws.
about isp's logging those files that is 100% untrue we are not speaking about logfiles of some GB but thousents of PB witch are need to be indexated to be of use for isp's there is no ISP in the world that can pay a mainframe that can do that and if they could pay that wouln't pay it cos its not interesting for them. in the netherlands the isp's are the one's who brought this to the public just because they could not pay the nessesairy instalations. and are afraid that they have to pay themselfs so internet get more expensive.(look at that site its hosted and sponserd by XS4all they were the ones that lanched here a offensive against this law.
What they already do is logging information of individuals, for example if the police suspects someone they are allowed to log that persons internet activity, but that is the same as phone tapping or placing spy devices in houses it can onley be done if someone is already suspected of something the new law logs everyone.
that law you pulled is the normal law for storage of personal data for example if you have a shop and you have the adresses names and banknumbers SOFInumbers ect stored you will have to meate those condisions of security to prevent it to fall in wrong hands.
btw soady i know you crazy englisch people dont accept it yet but the UK is member of the EU and like in every EU country 80 % of your laws are made in brussel
so the UK laws are not like the EU laws the EU laws ARE your laws.
30/08/2005 17:01
i signed up of course ..
soady .. this is just a beginning now, so i assume that's why u're so naive (no offense plz).. as u know whole traffic will be logged, not just web pages .. they'll be able to see what i wrote here for example ..
what will happen in some years will be: i'll say, for example, "hi BOMB" in quake, to say hi to bomb and local police will knock on my door or i'll be watched by some agents every step i made in cyber and real life, cos i said that and am a pontentional enemy already and threat for the country .. (and if i will be a muslim, they will lock me right away for days i guess)
are u really supporting that soady? free speech is collapsing with that and same is with democracy ..
i'm just realistic, not pessimistic ..
think again ..
30/08/2005 18:25
what you discribe is the next step none, now its onley logging to what server you are connecting, useless for them, expensive and intimidating for us.
30/08/2005 20:01
Signed it, it sucks ass. I'll post it on some more forums.
30/08/2005 20:30
it's not the next step rens .. i quote what's written on page:
"The European ministers of Justice and the European Commission want to keep all telephone and internet traffic data of all 450 million Europeans."
name of a web page is a lil fraction of internet traffic .. internet traffic is DATA, it's every packet!! .. if i connect to clan333.com for example, they'll know when i connected on it, what images, html, etc were downloaded from page, they'll be able to check everything what was transmited from site to me and from me to site .. so if i wrote something on forum, they'll know what i wrote, if i'll be just reading forums, they'll know every char i read, everything is logged ...... everything ...... they'll know if u downloaded something pirated for example, so this will expand to legal rights soon too .. same for email, they'll able to see what i wrote in it and to whom i sent it, which files i attached with it, everything .. also when usa was suggesting that law, it was said that u can be a potentional enemy, if u'll encrypt ur emails, as they assume u're hidding something ....
they just wrote "web pages" because it's written for ppl with no computer background, so normal ppl understand that this is a threat .. eveywhere is said internet traffic, not web pages!
30/08/2005 20:53
also what will be happening can be seen in the real word already (mostly in usa) ..
need to find the news where family's were visted by police, cos their children used nicknames like osama bin laden on IRC (nothing more) .. was some months ago, i think it was on cnet, will check it ..
as u know if u say words like "BOMB", "KILL" while phoning on stationary phone, interpol will record ur conversation ..
also when bush visited our country, a drunken guy joked about how he'll shoot bush's head of, was arrested here and then charged for a nice amount of money ..
this will happen with internet when they'll start to monitor it .. i'll write that i want to shoot bushs head off and i'll be monited 24/7 by police, they'll be checking my every fucking move, who am i calling, what am i saying, what am i looking on internet, everything i write, read all my new emails and then it will even happen that someone in real life will follow me, as i'm the biggest terrorist right? ..
30/08/2005 21:52
If anyone of
you has played game named: DeusEx
Then he/she
knows what i am talking about.
The story goes
as follows .. everything from TV, radio, phones, internet, satelite surveillance
and comunications is being monitored .. but because humans couldn't monitor
such ammounts of data they created an AI (Artificial Inteligence) which
had its own inteligence and started to develop its own (mind) theorys and
what is right and what is wrong.
I
Strongly recommend this game from year 1999 because everything the story said
became or is becomming true.
If anyone
wants to play it .. i can send it to you because you can not buy this
game anymore and i have original CD.
Here is the
beginning of the story that is not in the game:
size=2> color=#AF5050>http://www.xi-networks.net/DeusEx/
It's a long story .. but it's worth reading it
trust me!
30/08/2005 22:01
first storing all actual data is not possible the feed is simply to great and there is no platform that can store that amount of data, like i know of some program on tv this was not the intention, the intention was to log who talked to who and possibly to store the filenames of sended opjects. saving the actual opjects is not and was not in the discussion.
about the usa they wanted to do the same as the euroministers but like i said saw off from that plan cos of the moral en technical difficulties. its true that interpole and the cia\fbi have a system that scans some (not all) of the internet and phone feeds for dangeres words and off course they tab phones (the netherlands is the country where word wide the most phones are tapped). but let me get you out of your dream the goverments know what you earn, know where you spend your money, they know where you live actualy they already know everything that makes it so scary.
about the usa they wanted to do the same as the euroministers but like i said saw off from that plan cos of the moral en technical difficulties. its true that interpole and the cia\fbi have a system that scans some (not all) of the internet and phone feeds for dangeres words and off course they tab phones (the netherlands is the country where word wide the most phones are tapped). but let me get you out of your dream the goverments know what you earn, know where you spend your money, they know where you live actualy they already know everything that makes it so scary.
30/08/2005 22:07
signed it to
Greetings 3R@S3R_NL
Greetings 3R@S3R_NL
30/08/2005 22:08
Spc Told :
Posted on 30 August 2005 at 21:52:21
watch the movie Irobot besides a nice movie also a nice idea what can happen if you make a selfthinking computer and let it regulate everything.
http://wiki.dataretentionisnosolution.com:81/index.php/Daily_country_count
common guys we dutch dont want to be alone to reject this thing
If anyone of you has played game named: DeusEx
Then he/she knows what i am talking about.
The story goes as follows .. everything from TV, radio, phones, internet, satelite surveillance and comunications is being monitored .. but because humans couldn't monitor such ammounts of data they created an AI (Artificial Inteligence) which had its own inteligence and started to develop its own (mind) theorys and what is right and what is wrong.
I Strongly recommend this game from year 1999 because everything the story said became or is becomming true.
If anyone wants to play it .. i can send it to you because you can not buy this game anymore and i have original CD.
Here is the beginning of the story that is not in the game:
http://www.xi-networks.net/DeusEx/
It's a long story .. but it's worth reading it trust me!
Posted on 30 August 2005 at 21:52:21
watch the movie Irobot besides a nice movie also a nice idea what can happen if you make a selfthinking computer and let it regulate everything.
http://wiki.dataretentionisnosolution.com:81/index.php/Daily_country_count
common guys we dutch dont want to be alone to reject this thing
30/08/2005 22:14
Does anyone of you know Echelon System? Echelon System was first mentioned in this game (DeusEx) and 3 years after that i've heard that this system accually exists today but it is highly classified.
NSA (National Security Agency) has Echelon and this early stage AI is monitoring and searching for specific words and text in all networks (IP and PBX) so if you say specific word like Bush it will record your telephone conversation even if you are in italy or germany and then it will analyse it and determine if you are a thread.
Here is little info about Echelon:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Echelon+surveillance&spell=1
You will be shocked as i was when i first heard about it in a game (DeusEx) and thought this was just Sci-Fi .. but then i realized it that it is allready happening... and what about AIDS .. is it natural virus or maybe artificial (man made) ?
30/08/2005 22:15
REBTOR Told :
Spc Told :
If anyone of you has played game named: DeusEx
Then he/she knows what i am talking about.
The story goes as follows .. everything from TV, radio, phones, internet, satelite surveillance and comunications is being monitored .. but because humans couldn't monitor such ammounts of data they created an AI (Artificial Inteligence) which had its own inteligence and started to develop its own (mind) theorys and what is right and what is wrong.
I Strongly recommend this game from year 1999 because everything the story said became or is becomming true.
If anyone wants to play it .. i can send it to you because you can not buy this game anymore and i have original CD.
Here is the beginning of the story that is not in the game:
http://www.xi-networks.net/DeusEx/
It's a long story .. but it's worth reading it trust me!
Posted on 30 August 2005 at 21:52:21
watch the movie Irobot besides a nice movie also a nice idea what can happen if you make a selfthinking computer and let it regulate everything.
http://wiki.dataretentionisnosolution.com:81/index.php/Daily_country_count
common guys we dutch dont want to be alone to reject this thing
Yes i have seen that movie .. it could be an early matrix story..
30/08/2005 22:25
spc did you looked the link that i posted in the second post how come the world trade touwers colapse showed 10 signs of demolision explotion and how come the towers are the onley steelframe building that is ever collapsed under fire (fire even with jet fuell cant get warm enough to make the structal integerty to fall), how come the gab in the pentagon is to small for a plane of that type to fit in and why are there never found any remains of that plane but found they remains of a mutch smaller unmanned craft with happen to be of the us millitairy they had 8 of them but lost 2 in ongoing opperations, why did WTC 4,5,and 7 collapse (7 by explosives is admitted but how could they be planted in 7 hours) all buildings made to resist eath quakes and had no real dmg done but all collapsed hours after that towers, why is it forbidden for the media in the USA to show any images on tv regarding 9\11, why did nobody tell that the first 40 floors of the worldtrade center were made of asbest and that the clowed that hang over the city made thousends of the workers and firefighters ill.
how did blare know the metro atacks were done by moslims wile the police could not tell a thing and were still getting people from the wrackages. why did those atacks came on the day that there was a top regarding spending money in the middleeast witch instaid of talking about terror, why is the rummor going that aids is escaped from a american research fasility of biological wapons.
there the tekst what is in the plan
What does the European Commission propose?
According to the Commission proposal, all fixed and mobile telephony traffic and location data from all private and legal persons in the EU should be stored for 1 year. Data about communications 'using solely the internet protocol' should be stored for 6 months. The Commission does not provide any argument about the usefulness and necessity of data retention, but considers the directive to be proportionate if providers are reimbursed for 'demonstrated additional costs'.
data ABOUT communications not the data itself
about that computer that is scanning email, phones on words that is there for years and proberbly the reson why that drunk guy of none has been arrested .
how did blare know the metro atacks were done by moslims wile the police could not tell a thing and were still getting people from the wrackages. why did those atacks came on the day that there was a top regarding spending money in the middleeast witch instaid of talking about terror, why is the rummor going that aids is escaped from a american research fasility of biological wapons.
there the tekst what is in the plan
What does the European Commission propose?
According to the Commission proposal, all fixed and mobile telephony traffic and location data from all private and legal persons in the EU should be stored for 1 year. Data about communications 'using solely the internet protocol' should be stored for 6 months. The Commission does not provide any argument about the usefulness and necessity of data retention, but considers the directive to be proportionate if providers are reimbursed for 'demonstrated additional costs'.
data ABOUT communications not the data itself
about that computer that is scanning email, phones on words that is there for years and proberbly the reson why that drunk guy of none has been arrested .
30/08/2005 23:07
This is the topic that surrounds us all so make your choice.
30/08/2005 23:36
Spc Told :
REBTOR Told :Spc Told :
Yes i have seen that movie .. it could be an early matrix story..
Posted on 30 August 2005 at 22:15:54
a mutch more realistic matrix story.![[big]](../images/smileys/bigleu.gif)