Europe Extreme Elite

(Note: Besides the sarcasms, there's something serious underneath this post so I recommend you to either discard it or read it as a whole)

Dear fellow efreezers,

Yesterday, it came to my attention that a new bunch of terrorists are threatening the freedom of Internet. As you may know, wikipedia project started under that name during January 2001, and its founders are Jimmy Wales and Larry Sanger. Wikipedia in itself, does not represent a threat to the Internet other than the centralization of information which - I have noticed that on some people inc. myself - pushes us not to explore the diversity of sources of the web but just to rely on Wikipedia (which obviously weakens our ability to distinguish facts from interpretation, evidences from suggestions). This in itself is nothing we can do about besides trying to un-lazy ourselves by doing deeper researches into the net.

Just like the gullible idealist I am, I always supposed Wikipedia content was added by many fellows. Well, it is. But it's administered by no more than two dozens of administrators. Administrators have the right to revoke modifications and to ban you. So far it seems pretty normal. But it seems yet again, giving powers to lambda people resulted in severe partiality, at least in France.

There are probably many instances of the problem I'll be trying to describe. Jean-Pierre Petit is a french controversial scientist. But even while being controversial, he chaired in the CNRS at various jobs (CNRS is Centre National de Recherche Scientifique / French Agency for Scientific Research) and published papers about his researchs. For reasons beyond my understanding, one of the higher-ranked administrators of Wikipedia (Yes, there is a hierarchy there), is an arch-ennemy of his and they fought on many issues on Wikipedia which resulted in a permanent ban of Wikipedia. The whole affair is described by JP Petit on this page : http://www.jp-petit.org/nouv_f/wikipedia/wikipedia_derive1.htm. One of the admins (Alvaro) went rogue after everything which happened. Depending where you side on, you would see him as a redemptor or as a traitor, that is, again, if you choose to pick sides. This guy was lapidated on the channel a few days after JP Petit revealed his email on his website. I invite french people to cast a glance at this IRC log http://www.jp-petit.org/nouv_f/wikipedia/archives_irc/riazuelo_alvaro.htm (it's in french) to get an idea about the global attitude and behaviour of wikipedia most-active and higher-ranked administrators. I won't draw comparisons with History, because sadly, there were too many instances of History in which people like these got power and used it badly. Just like Acton said:

"Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely"

Now to me it seems that Jean Pierre Petit had a pretty childish behaviour himself and does not seem to be the smartest man on Earth, still he has a point: these guys do not deserve nor should have such powers. I have no idea what to do about it, as I think it's now rooted so bad in the Wikipedia system that there's no way going back. I won't ever use French version Wikipedia of again.

Please discuss. Hopefully, there won't be anyone here modifying/deleting your comments or banning you from the forum ;-)

 

It's sure that this kind of websites can't run without admin. Even if the main goal is to help everyone and even if most of the users are appreciating this service, you will always find a stupid guy who likes to feel himself powerful by destroying work from others. It's why I won't critisize the presence of admins.



BUT... everyone who is written something somewhere, especially concerning history, has a subjective opinion. It's a really hard job to tell the facts without giving a positive or negative feeling. I won't trust Microsoft Encarta, or Universalis Encyclopedy 100% cause they give the interpretation that they think right.



In my mind, Wikipedia is worst. Why ? Coz you can write only one article with a specific goal that is not to give the fact, but an interpretation or a personnal opinion. Most of the writters are not professionnal from education or science, or anything else. It's why every article is really not trustable. Wikipedia is a nice collection of knowledge, but it's subjective and shouldn't be use for anything else than curiousity.



Concerning admins' abuses, it confirms that articles are not from safe sources, and subjectivity is present at every level of this webtool. (writters, admins, ...)



So, be careful at what you are reading, guys.

j suis deg j viens de me faire chier a repondre et au final g appuie sur backspace et g tout pêrdu (viens pa me demander pourkoi) alors ... tant pis

en gros je disais (et oui la derniere fois ct en anglais mais la ca me gave ...)  bref ... ce gars c un scientific ok et il sait pleins de choses mais il est pa neutre dans ses propos et ca c un problem ... le fait ke LUI pense rouge ne veu pa dire ke c rouge et ... bah c la ke les admins rentrent en jeu

ok peu etre k ils abusent mais franchement kan tu pense a la mass de choses k ils ont a regler et a toutes les conneries k ils doivent lire tu peu comprendre k ils vont pa passer 150 ans a discuter avec UN gars sous pretexte ke c un scientifique de renom ...

ce ki serai interressant ca serai de savoir POURKOI il a ete banni kes k il a dit a CE moment precis pour ke l admin decide k il doit etre ban a vie ... (g pas irc)

le truc de pa pouvoir edit sa propre biographie m a franchement bien fait rire ... parce ke s il ne peu pa corriger ... ki le peu ?

mais bon apres si il te sort un truc style l homme peu voler dans le ciel avec sa simple volonte ...(vive dragon ball) et ke ok il te le demontre par a+b ... bah ouais klr tu le ban ... meme si sa demonstration tiens la route ...

j avoue g pa eu le courage de lire TOUT ce ki a resulte de son coup de tel a cette nana ... et j avoue ke franchemnt ce mec "jpp" il est tres connu mais ca veu pa dire k il ne dis ke la veritee ... sinon il ne serai pa dis : controverse

wikipedia c un lieu ou tu dois pouvoir etre plus ou moins sur des info ke tu vas trouver et encore y a pleins de choses FAUSSES sur ce site mais a mon avis c pa un problem d admin ki se sent plu peter c plutot ke l admin n ayant pu trouver justification de ses dires nul part a ete contraint de l effacer par mankes de preuves .. apres voila encore une fois j veu savoir sur KEL sujet exact il a eu des problems ... mais bon si c juste "jpp" ki tente de faire passer SA PROPRE theorie et k apres kelkes avertissement de l admin il continue a insister ... bah ouais klr ban tu vas pas y passer 107 ans .... serieusement ils ont surement d autres chats a fouetter ....

c comme ici ... un admin ki te dit 5 fois : hey gars t a un problem la t a wh et tu joue comme un noob arretes ca ou tu sera ban ... 1 fois ... 2 fois ... 3 fois ... bah tu fais koi toi si vraiment t sur de ton coup ? moi je ban et fin de discussion ...

peu etre ke "jpp" a raison sur ce k il dit et je ne doute pas une seconde k il pourrait apporter beaucoup mais ... si il est borne et refuse de comprendre ou s il a pris les admins pour des cons ou si il s est engueule avec eux pendant des semaines a ne faire ke les insulter ... perso ... j perdrai meme plu mon temps a lire ses articles memem s ils sont fondes ... j veu dire si tu insulte un admin pendant des semaines viens pa pluerer le jour ou tu te fait bannir ..

desole j suis un peu bourre et j sais pa si j suis tres tres clair


.............SORRY FOR WRITTING THIS IN FRENCH BUT I M LAZY...............

thank you nightmare, only 1% of ppl here understands it. very helpful...........

Here's a rough translation of what he said:

I'm disgusted. I just answered and in the end, I push backspace and I lost all of it (don't ask me why) so... fuck it

basically, i was saying (and yes, last time was in english but now im sick and i give up ...) so ... this guy is a scientist, alright, and he knows a lot but still he isn't neutral when he speaks and this is a problem.. the fact that HE thinks red does not mean it is red and ... well that's when the admins come into playing

OK, maybe they abuse but honestly, when you see how many things they have to deal with and all the bullshit they must read, you may understand they won't spend 150 years discussing with ONE guy because he's a famous scientist...

It would be more interesting to know WHY he's been banned, what he did say at THAT VERY moment which made the admin put a lifetime ban on him .. (i don't have IRC)

The thing about not being able to edit your own biography really made me laugh... because he can't correct it... who can?

But well, if he says man can fly with his own will ... (Dragon ball rocks) and that he demonstrates it w/ A+B... OK you ban him.. even if his demonstration seems right ... 

I admit i haven't had the courage to read all that resulted from his phone call to this girl... and i must admit this "JPP" guy is famous but that doesn't mean he holds the truth.. or there wouldn't be a controversy

wikipedia is a place where you should be able to find information even if there are many WRONG information on this website but in my opinion it's not an over-zeelous-administration problem but more something like an administrator couldn't find anything justifying what he wrote... But if it's just "JPP" who tries to show HIS OWN theory and after a few warnings he still tries.. Of course you won't spend 107 years... They sure have a lof of other things to do...

It's just like here... an admin tells you 5 times: hey man, you have a problem here, you're WHing and you play like a noob, so stop that or you'll be banned.. once, twice, three times.. and now what do you do? Me? I ban and end of discussion...

Maybe that "jpp" is right on what he says and I don't doubt for a single moment that he could bring a great many things ... but if he's stubborn and if he refuses to understand or if he played the admins like fools or if he had harsh arguments with them for weeks only insulting them... personally... i wouldn't waste my time to read his articles even if they mean something... i mean, if you insult an admin for weeks, do not come cry when you get banned ..

Sorry i'm a little drunk and i don't know if i'm very sound

.............Désolé d'éccrire ca en français mais je suis pareisseux...............

wikipedia is banned to be used as reliable source of information on (my) universities in germany.

hahhaha good job ben ! thx and very lol for the end

Well articles usually have sources from where they were written, so use these instead of wikipedia as source ... Will save time