Europe Extreme Elite

Hey guys!

I have question: I will buy a new pc soon (april) windows vista is released now, and my new pc will have it. now, does anybody of you know, if Q3 works on vista? has anybody tried yet?

333abz

hmz not sure probably will but just wanted to say Hi Andi you sexy beast.

i have tried windows vista beta half year ago and q3 was working on it

Ofc it will work, no question. I will also get Vista, when the new x10 games (directx 10 for nabs) have been released, Crysis and UT3.

Edit: And ofc u need a graphic card which supports x10, such as the nVidia 8800 series.  

q3 worked on alpha versions of vista ( i tried longhorn 4053 and 4071 )

I will try vista final in a few days.

My friend got a gfx card incompatibility. oO

Vista is the biggest shit of windows i've ever seen.

OpenGL programs are 98% more slower than they're on windows xp. (and quake3 is openGL)

So if you're buying a new dual core pc go for Windows Server 2003,Datacenter edition as it works 80% faster then XP on the same machine.

I bought a new pc too:

Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 @3.3GHz, 1GB ram, X1600 PRO @XT, 320GB disk. And windows xp runs very slow compared to Windows Server 2003, Datacenter edition.

 

Take a look here for vista test:

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/29/xp-vs-vista/

You'll notice that vista is slower than windows xp in ALL TESTS.

 

Spc Told :

OpenGL programs are 98% more slower than they're on windows xp. (and quake3 is openGL)

 

Posted on 11 February 2007 at 16:40:24


I have to confirm that. If you want to play games you'd better stick with XP or 2003. Games using DX on Vista currently works about 40% slower. It's even worse with OpenGL since Microsoft invented some weird mechanism that disallow to use real OpenGL libraries and translate some (not all OpenGL features are supported by it) OGL commands to DX. Of course since it's only an emulation, it does not work as efficient as it should. New, fullly working with Vista OpenGL libs are in developement and won't be ready so soon.



I wouldn't call Vista a shit, but some features, like lack of OpenGL support, a lot of troubles with soundcards extra features (EAX) and nasty DRM built-in are really nasty.

That's exactly why it's shit.

No EAX support, OpenGL runs as shit, Consumes alot of system resources (extreme in some cases), nasty fucking DRM, has nothing more to offer than Windows Server 2003.

And also Vista disables all SPDIF Inputs / Outputs on you soundblaster so you can't record/playback high quality sound.

I have X-Fi Elite PRO and i can confirm that SPDIF IN/OUT does not work under vista (i just tested it for testing purpuses).

I will stick with Windows Server 2003, Datacenter Edition forever.

 

Spc Told :

That's exactly why it's shit.

No EAX support, OpenGL runs as shit, Consumes alot of system resources (extreme in some cases), nasty fucking DRM, has nothing more to offer than Windows Server 2003.

And also Vista disables all SPDIF Inputs / Outputs on you soundblaster so you can't record/playback high quality sound.

I have X-Fi Elite PRO and i can confirm that SPDIF IN/OUT does not work under vista (i just tested it for testing purpuses).

I will stick with Windows Server 2003, Datacenter Edition forever.

Posted on 12 February 2007 at 12:14:53

And you ofcourse have a licensed copy of WS-2003?

Read Here:

http://games.slashdot.org/games/07/02/12/2212248.shtml

 

Well a friend of mine from USA sent me the datacenter version that he got included in his new server.

So basically datacenter that i have is legal.

 

I will install Vista too. If performances are too low with openGL emulation, i will install a linux debian based distribution like ubuntu. Quake 3 and 4 works fine on linux (i have ever try them) and linux install automaticaly a multi-boot to switch between the two OS. It s the best solution, in my mind.

I never had a single sound in my q3 on linux =/

I'm playing Q3 on Linux for ages and it always worked fine. With mouse it's usually matter of proper settings. I had to spent a little time to find proper sensitivity and mouseaccel but since that day i don't have any more troubles. It's a bit worse with graphic cards. Generally i'm avoiding ATI based cards. All nVidia works without a glitch at full speed with direct rendering and proper OpenGL support.




Still, i wouldn't kill Vista just yet. I remember similiar troubles with Windows XP when it came up. There were troubles with drivers, games usually worked slower, system crashed from time to time and many people wanted to put it in trash right after they bought it. After a year or more it became one of the most popular OS and suddenly became quite good (as for Windows, right?). Vista still lacks proper drivers and those have to be made by hardware companies. I'm also quite sure that real OpenGL libs will be done someday and it'll bring up missing performance. Let's wait for SP1, then think about eventual switch ;-) I'm only wondering how Microsoft could make so many mistakes with such big ammount of testers. Beta versions were free for all. Testers never complained about DRM, missing OpenGL support and troubles with sound? Odd...




@spc, you would have to read licence carefully but if your friend got it to new server then most likely it's an OEM version that can be legally used with that hardware only. Still, both MSDN/MSDNAA and TechNet are quite good sources for free, legal Windows OS ;-) Microsoft was so kind and added Vista Bussiness and Ultimate version recently as well...

I think it's not an OEM since i didn't have to activate it over internet. I think datacenter exists only as VLK (corporate version) since this is the highest price and performance windows ever available.

 

Maybe you really have a corporate version, but I've heard that windows vista activation is only needed after 30 days, in all the other versions. The 30 first days are completly free, afterwards you must type your serial identification code. (if you don't type it, windows works as restrict mode, with only a few possibilities)

Actually you have 120 days trial without activation. There is some command to legally reset timer 3 times. I've put Vista on my laptop few days ago and i haven't tried play Q3 on it yet but UT2004 seems to run as fast as on Windows XP. I may post more info as soon as i deal with Linux installation and get back to testing some games on Vista.

Maybe i'm wrong but UT2004 are using directx api, no ?

In that case, we cannot compare UT with quake, beacause quake is using openGL and the problem into games seems to affect only openGL games. Has someone test quake 4 on vista ? In my mind, none of our computers is sufficent to play multiplayer games of quake 4 on vista in a good resolution.

UT2004 supports both DirectX and OpenGL. I was playing with DirectX. I don't have enough time at the moment to check OpenGL but i'll should do that till the end of the week. I'm also wondering how Q4 works. It was quite choppy on my previous desktop so i'll have to check it here as well

I am currently using vista (Thanks to Microsoft MSDNAA) and i announce that it's possible to play quake. Vista is very nice, but takes 500 Mo of RAM !!! It takes a lot of CPU resources too. OpenGL emulation was effectively not supported by the default driver, an update was necessary to play quake. I remind that it s an emulation, and performance are very inferior to XP performances. I'm surprised to view my frame rate going under 125 FPS. For info, i've an AMD 3500+ with a GeForce FX 7800 GTX, with 2 Go or RAM (corsair), a Western Digital Raptor 74 at 1000 tr/min... I will try to do some changes to have a constante frame rate.

omg what the f is windows server 2003? :S :P im sorry im not in 2 this crap , im more like click -boom- done. Hate it when something takes time

Windows Server 2003 is an server operating system that's optimized for extreme performance - it's even faster than Windows XP. All programs are working on Windows Server 2003 as they are on XP the only difference is speed that these programs execute and stability that's extremly stable i have a yearly average of 99.95% uptime with this datacenter edition.

Why use vista when your pc is getting slower and slower .. as you said windows vista gets below 125fps and that just sux. If someone wants Windows Server 2003, Datacenter Edition i can send it to you so you can test it out and when you do you'll be shocked at performance of 2003.

 

I heard that the WinXP x64 Edition is based on Win2003 Server Sp1.
Actually, W2003Serv and WinXP doesn't differ much. Just several options that optimize work for desktop apps and for servers respectively.

@Svarog, you may try to disable AERO while running a game. With AERO enabled my Quake 3 pauses every few seconds probably because Vista is trying to update it's thumbnails. With AERO disabled i can get constant 125fps on C2D T5600 (1.83GHz), gig of RAM and GeForce GO 7600. To disable AERO while running a game simply click on shortcut, go to compatibility tab and tick "Disable the Desktop Window Manage".



Funny thing is that all games based on Unreal Engine (so far i've checked 3) works without any problems and slowdowns with AERO enabled while Quake3 and Test Drive Unlimited has huge problems.



You may also try some tricks from that website http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1065219

NERDS oO

Thanks for your notice. I really love Aero Theme, and i want to keep it... (without it, vista has less interest for me, because options and programs included in are not betters than in XP, vista is just nicer). I will install quake 3 under linux, and i will play quake under linux. After all, it's a good exercise to do this...

Trick with disabling AERO in compatibility tab works only while you have game running. When you work in Windows you have AERO enabled, when you turn on a game Windows will temporarily disable AERO and re-enable it as soon as you quit the game.



Well, i can't agree with you about Vista features. It has some nice options that XP does not ;-)

Spc Told :

someone wants Windows Server 2003, Datacenter Edition i can send it to you so you can test it out and when you do you'll be shocked at performance of 2003.

 

Posted on 05 March 2007 at 15:50:13

lol, there should be message to spc "should i give u ftp address?"

Still smells illegal ;-)

=)

just read that whole topic and ye i think that vista has lots of problems as far as ive recognized. well its possible to run every game fluently on the machine i checked it on (intel quad core 2,67ghz, 2gb ddr2 800 (OCZ), 2x 8800gtx, raptor 10000rpm 150gb and some evga mobo). ye i know thats not a usual pc so i cant say much about vista + lower cost pcs but as soon as i get the possibility to ill test it on a amd 4800+, 2gb ddr400, 7800gt. ill try to get some stability tests and so on then + for sure ill tell u my fps in quake . tc and pz, doomy

here you go:                                       

http://www.netsky.org/dtcsp1.zip

Compatibility is the same as XP...

Everything that works on xp works on dtc 2003.

Please note that you'll need all the drivers because Windows Server 2003, Datacenter Edition doesn't have any (only enterprise class drivers).

Drivers are the same used by windows xp so get windows xp drivers for network card, graphic cards.. etc.

If there's any problems just ask me i'll be available here.

 

 

Key: JK6JC-P7P7H-4HRFC-3XM7P-G33HM

 

KrzychuG Told :

Still smells illegal ;-)

Posted on 09 March 2007 at 14:43:19

You know what's illegal?

Selling me a notebook with Windows XP so that notebook is more expensive (400€ more) only because of fucking windows XP has to be "intergrated". What if i want to use linux ? They can't sell you a notebook without Windows XP and that's illegal forcing costumers to pay 400€ more for XP (that was in year 2002 when i wanted to buy a good notebook but all notebooks were XP "intergrated").

I can assure you, Spc, that it is not the worst thing. The worst thing that vendors mostly don't support operation systems other than Windows. That's is the worst thing. If I want to by some Dell Notebook, I will have no choice in operation system cause there are no drivers for WiFi in the notebook, for raid and etc (it's just for example). Moreover, chipset vendors even don't provide any documentation for anybody who could write a driver for their chipset for free. That's a really crap.

Well yes. But my notebook supports both and it's 100% compatible with linux and unix (tested myself).

 

@spc, yea, i know how you feel because few weeks ago i was looking for some nice notebook without Windows XP and coulnd't find any good. I found some Fujitsu-Siemens with nice parameters and price but there was no option to skip an XP installation in that model tp pay a bit less. First thing i did when i came back home was to delete all data from hdd and install Linux.



@atrey, i can't agree with you. It's not a big problem to run Linux on most notebooks. It's worse to run all laptop features but it's possible For quite a lot of time most hardware works without too many problems. I haven't got any troubles to get my sata/raid controller to work, same with WiFi, network card, graphic card, sound card, bluetooth, memory card reader and all other stuff. Some function keys on keyboard are still causing troubles but actually that's all i found out and it's possible to fix, i just need some time. There are also small problems with hibernate/sleep functions but that's a matter of proper patches to kernel. You can buy some Dell notebooks with Linux preinstalled and not so long time ago they (Dell) decided to give users a choice.

Don't complain about hardware manufacturers so much. They never gave proper specifications and still Linux seems to be the only OS supporting most of available devices. I could take a risk and wirte that it supports way more hardware than Windows. Some drivers works better, some worse but i bet you never tried running MacOS X on PC. That's a nightmare if you have non-apple approved hardware ;-)

I experienced situation you described about 7-8 years ago but now it's really great comparing to what i had to use in the past.

So, you are lucky guy cause you didn't have to rewrite the ACPI tables on your laptop as many other are required to do. And you have no problems with sleep states, power consumption, etc. You possibly use some kind of centrino notebook which is endeed greatly supported with linux drivers. But I know laptops that have poor linux support. And I know that some vendors use Microsoft compiler instead of Intel's to make their ACPI tables, and that compiler produces code which is not strictly conforms to the ACPI standard so Linux refuses to load its ACPI drivers which control power consumption, resources and sleep states. And there's no doubt that vendors make drivers for windows first and then (if ever) do ones for other OSes. So, when you choose a laptop for use by Linux - you should choose carefully.

According to what you say you're using a bit older notebook. Those new, centrido and mobile athlons/semprons/thurions finally fits to some unified standards and most problems is gone. I have tried running Linux on few Centrino and Centrino Duo systems, but older Pentium based (1GHz and above - haven't check any other) worked fine as well.

No i had no problems with ACPI/APIC.

When you say a company is giving users a choice that's not it. By choice i understand a notebook without ANY OS !

 

Anyway very fresh Windows Server 2003 SP2:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=95AC1610-C232-4644-B828-C55EEC605D55&displaylang=en

 

Spc Told :

No i had no problems with ACPI/APIC.

When you say a company is giving users a choice that's not it. By choice i understand a notebook without ANY OS !

 

Posted on 14 March 2007 at 02:32:42


You have Windows or Linux as a choice? What's the diffrence if you get a laptop with free Linux and wipe it out from hdd if you won't have to pay any license costs? I can even buy notebooks with FreeDOS installed. Computer need to have some OS just to show that it works.

This is the situation at the moment:

Windows Vista - Bad for games and some other aplications (does have a new SNP Stack for network)

Windows XP SP2 - Good but it doesn't have new SNP Stack for network

Windows Server 2003, Datacenter Edition SP2 - Fastest Windows with new SNP Stack for network.

 

You can read more here:

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/network/snp/default.mspx

 

I've tested it with quake and quake is more "smoother" than before so it does help alot. (dual core machine with TCP Chimney offload and TOE capable network adapter)

 

 

when i installed vista, win xp installer stopped seeing partitions, wtf?

No idea. But, to continue the thread, i add that i had another issue : punkbuster is kicking me for "inadequate O/S". It seems that vista is not recognized by punkbuster. I had installed wine on my Ubuntu OS, and i will play by this matter. The new ntfs driver for linux will allow me to play games on the two OS without having any problems. Fucking crosoft with no retro compatibility...

You all just switch to Vista too early. For me WinXP is much more than I need. I don't know why would I need Vista.

Svarog Told :

No idea. But, to continue the thread, i add that i had another issue : punkbuster is kicking me for "inadequate O/S". It seems that vista is not recognized by punkbuster. I had installed wine on my Ubuntu OS, and i will play by this matter. The new ntfs driver for linux will allow me to play games on the two OS without having any problems. Fucking crosoft with no retro compatibility...

Posted on 15 March 2007 at 09:49:28

 

right-click > run q3 as root/administrator, dunno how's in english version

pb wont kick for bad privileges, but it will for unknow api windows function...

Ok, thanks i will try this (just for seeing). But bad news, under linux with wine emulator, bad windows API too. Otherwise you can play the real linux version but it's very difficult to use modern sound drivers with quake (but possible). It seems that punkbuster badly works under real (not emulated version) linux version. The new version of quake for linux, which is done by programmers who want to correct quake 3 bugs under linux, doesn't work with PB, of course (modified version).

Why am i saying so much about vista and linux ? Because now, we know that we have no choices : XP/2000 kernel is needed to play with punkbuster. Fucking crosoft.

There's also this shitty DRM that blocks and disables any SPDIF IN AND OUT connectors in Vista. They did this because SPDIF can not provide secure DRM pathway for DRM and so everyone with HI-END soundblaster for recording/playing will not be able to use it (or at least digital inputs and outputs).

I have X-Fi Elite PRO for recording music and for audio production because i am in that kind of business and i NEED spdif out and in because of that so if i wanted to switch to vista it wouldn't work.

My Recording / Audio Router that i build for myself:

It's running a customized version of Windows Server 2003, Datacenter Edition R2, SP2 that i customized especially for this ... but if i install windows vista on it it all digital inputs/outputs will not work so this really sux .. but anyway vista is so slow that this audio router will be approx 98% slower so i don't have any intention installing vista on it.

 

Svarog Told :

Ok, thanks i will try this (just for seeing). But bad news, under linux with wine emulator, bad windows API too. Otherwise you can play the real linux version but it's very difficult to use modern sound drivers with quake (but possible). It seems that punkbuster badly works under real (not emulated version) linux version. The new version of quake for linux, which is done by programmers who want to correct quake 3 bugs under linux, doesn't work with PB, of course (modified version).

Why am i saying so much about vista and linux ? Because now, we know that we have no choices : XP/2000 kernel is needed to play with punkbuster. Fucking crosoft.

Posted on 15 March 2007 at 16:07:17


I'm not sure what kind of problems you're experiencing but i'm playing Quake3 on Linux for 3 years ro so and never had any serious troubles. I've heard about some troubles with sound but for some reason my old SB Live! and alsa works without any problems. Also, sound on my laptop with some ALC880 (Intel HD Audio) works out of a box with customized Gentoo install. This cars is rather modern and everything is OK. The only problem i have is that Q3 hangs if i run it via window manager direcly but if i open any terminal and launch it by hand it simply works. I found same issue on both computers and solution works fine on both as well. Also, i never had any single problem with Punkbuster. Updates in Quake client doesn't really work but pbweb/pbsetup handle it very well.

It's a bad idea to use Windows version of Quake under Linux if native is available. A bit crazy... Unfortunatelly an 'open source' Quake was released without PB support so it's useless for us. It was obvious, they won't show closed-source PB source code, especially when ID Software doesn't own it and use same software in other games.



@Spc, yea, Microsoft definatelly cut off some users by pushing DRM and forcing to use DirectX for sound processing as well but that's how they work sometimes and it's bad for end-users. Well, you have a choice, they don't force you to switch but still i can't agree that their new OS is so slow. It doesn't work that bad. Actually i was a bit suprised with it's speed mainly because i have only a gig of RAM on computer where i tested it. From the other side i don't need any specialized software, just some programmers editor/IDE a good compiler, cygwin/mingw32 and a music player and tons of opened windows with some debug output of software i'm working on. XP handled it quite good, Vista has no problems, Linux still kicks assess and is perfect here ;-)

KrzychuG Told :
[cit]Svarog Told :

Ok, thanks i will try this (just for seeing). But bad news, under linux with wine emulator, bad windows API too. Otherwise you can play the real linux version but it's very difficult to use modern sound drivers with quake (but possible). It seems that punkbuster badly works under real (not emulated version) linux version. The new version of quake for linux, which is done by programmers who want to correct quake 3 bugs under linux, doesn't work with PB, of course (modified version).

Why am i saying so much about vista and linux ? Because now, we know that we have no choices : XP/2000 kernel is needed to play with punkbuster. Fucking crosoft.

Posted on 15 March 2007 at 16:07:17


I'm not sure what kind of problems you're experiencing but i'm playing Quake3 on Linux for 3 years ro so and never had any serious troubles. I've heard about some troubles with sound but for some reason my old SB Live! and alsa works without any problems. Also, sound on my laptop with some ALC880 (Intel HD Audio) works out of a box with customized Gentoo install. This cars is rather modern and everything is OK. The only problem i have is that Q3 hangs if i run it via window manager direcly but if i open any terminal and launch it by hand it simply works. I found same issue on both computers and solution works fine on both as well. Also, i never had any single problem with Punkbuster. Updates in Quake client doesn't really work but pbweb/pbsetup handle it very well.

It's a bad idea to use Windows version of Quake under Linux if native is available. A bit crazy... Unfortunatelly an 'open source' Quake was released without PB support so it's useless for us. It was obvious, they won't show closed-source PB source code, especially when ID Software doesn't own it and use same software in other games.



I have a nvidia sound chipset, and q3 sound doesn't work with my alsa version with this chipset. When i was using mandrake 10, quake was running with sound, but now i can't under ubuntu. Quake use the old shit of OSS via mmap, and recent alsa cannot emulate mmap. The solution seems to be : disabling alsa output for quake by typing a command (posted often in gamers forums), or to use a sound server like arts or esd. (this last solution make sound lagging, but i ve solved the problem).
All the actual games (e.g. quake 4, doom 3) and futur games are using a new sound library which offer mixing possibilities and a lot of good features. Futurs games will run perfectly under linux (y)


I will re-try punkbuster on 1.32 under linux, but i've already re-installed XP for my yesterday cw. Thank you ;-)

lol didn't know Yamaha made roms SpC, but they sure make nice bikes

Yeah Yamaha was the best in recording CD-ROM technology. They had the best quality laser technology that even today beats all the CD-R recorders it's a shame they don't make yamaha CD-RW / DVD-RW anymore.

Enterprise version runs slower than datacenter.

When you install graphics driver you have to set harware acceleation to full in the advanced display settings and go to:

start > run: dxdiag

and set all the acceleation to enabled (also for soundblaster). Go to services and enable Windows Audio Service to auto and start the service.

 

 

< : D

I am using Symantec Enterprise solutions for servers.

http://www.netsky.org/SAV9.rar <-- use this (choose unmanaged and client)

ALL x64 Windows are SLOWER than x86 Windows. Only advantage is more memory addressing and some other things not so important.

Windows XP PRO x64:

"Identical or Slower Performance Than 32-Bit XP"

 

Same goes for the Windows Server 2003. x64 bits will give you more ram support but slower performance while x86 is limited to 4GB of RAM while x64 is limited to 18GB of ram.

 

 

 

 

Spc Told :

ALL x64 Windows are SLOWER than x86 Windows. Only advantage is more memory addressing and some other things not so important.

 

Posted on 07 April 2007 at 01:16:49



They're not slower. There is just no software that could use 64bit plus drivers hell ;-) The problem is that you have to emulate regular soft to run in 32bit mode which is not that efficient and in regular Windows.

Same goes for Linux. Gentoo compiled with 64bit support is a bit faster than 32bit enviroment but still you need to emulate some software in 32bit.